Pages

Friday, February 13, 2009

Stargazers and Hill Climbers

AS with Einstein, who was Socrates daemon?:)

In Plato's Apology of Socrates, Socrates claimed to have a daimonion (literally, a "divine something")[6] that frequently warned him - in the form of a "voice" - against mistakes but never told him what to do
See:Fullerane and Allotropes

Some may even call "hills" mountains. Depends on where they think perspective is heighten in relation to where they see themself in the world, and where a better locations allows for a more expansive views of things. This is psychologically important to realize that inherent inside of us if one does follow the tenet of Know Thyself by Socrates. Such a plan would have been understood in the examination to see a relationship in continuity is topologically important with the world around them. Not be self-centred, but to move progressively in the world may call for understanding this relationship with the environment.

What shall proceed the understanding that the arche is fully understood as the central themes of characters, to see it exemplified in how you now approach the world in your own way? It becomes easier for you to understand, that this "imprint of the concrete in the painting I had selected of the Raphael" was to show such a school of thought, was exemplifying the truer principle of the wisdom seeking, while of course approaching the modern day world based on that Socratic method in science.

But I only show by example, and recognizing this facet of the nature of the individual is more the idea that what ever method you choose that it is consistent and recognizable, becomes second nature to the person seeking answers. Student of Science or Philosophy.

Death of Socrates by Jacques Davidthis picture depicts the closing moments of the life of Socrates. Condemned to death or exile by the Athenian government for his teaching methods which aroused scepticism and impiety in his students, Socrates heroicly rejected exile and accepted death from hemlock.

Self portrait of Jacques-Louis David, 1794, Musée du Louvre

Here the philosopher continues to speak even while reaching for the cup, demonstrating his indifference to death and his unyielding commitment to his ideals. Most of his disciplines and slaves swirl around him in grief, betraying the weakness of emotionalism. His wife is seen only in the distance leaving the prison. Only Plato, at the foot of the bed and Crito grasping his master's leg, seem in control of themselves.
See:Jacques-Louis David: The Death of Socrates

I think the idea is and can be unique, in that each can develop a process and means to an end( many travel far and wide while they should have never left home), that would allow this creative aspect of being "in the now" has potential. To be able to allow insight to manifest and spread across the mind in such lightning speed. It thusly leaves no doubt. This is a condensible feature of the complexity of information to be distill to it's essence. IN an abstract world, a rain drop can hold quite an lot of architectural meaning.

For Plato then it was the ideal city-state of Kallipolis

The Philosopher King
Plato defined a philosopher firstly as its eponymous occupation – wisdom-lover. He then distinguishes between one who loves true knowledge as opposed to simple sights or education by saying that a philosopher is the only man who has access to Forms – the archetypal entities that exist behind all representations of the form (such as Beauty itself as opposed to any one particular instance of beauty). It is next and in support of the idea that philosophers are the best rulers that Plato fashions the ship of state metaphor, one of his most often cited ideas (along with his allegory of the cave). "[A] true pilot must of necessity pay attention to the seasons, the heavens, the stars, the winds, and everything proper to the craft if he is really to rule a ship" (The Republic, 6.488d). Plato claims that the sailors (i.e., the people of the city-state over whom the philosopher is the potential ruler) ignore the philosopher's "idle stargazing" because they have never encountered a true philosopher before.


Stargazers by Paul Rossetti Bjarnson, Pg 102, Chapter XV

***


Ever teacher has their progeny of students as has been exemplified in the context of our modern day scholars. Kip Thorne in relation to John Archibald Wheeler. Stephen Hawking and his doctoral students.

Dennis William Siahou Sciama FRS (November 18, 1926–December 18, 1999) was a British physicist who, through his own work and that of his students, played a major role in developing British physics after the Second World War.

Sciama also strongly influenced Roger Penrose, who dedicated his The Road to Reality to Sciama's memory. The 1960s group he led in Cambridge (which included Ellis, Hawking, Rees, and Carter), has proved of lasting influence.


I have already established this lineage and subsequent comments in relation to Penrose under this heading to exemplify the relationship and perspective in relation to each other externally in the progressive nature of moving forward in science.

***


For Plato, it is no less an important feature that at Socrates bedside he sees the wisdom of his teacher become the "guiding light source" of all that must exchange between those who hold a value to "dimensional significance in abstract" in our current day, would be able to see the world in a most significant way. It's no less progressive then, that such an example was given to an extent that the thought process of the Gendankin, would be set before Plato's own students, as John Wheeler did for his, to see that Aristotle is most selectively announced as a most brilliant student by answering to Plato's analogy of the Cave. Who becomes an extension of the "arche in principle" as one end being science, and in a open sweeping hand, to all that is for ever exemplify in the "arche contained" in the heading of this blog above.

Plotinus

Plotinus (Greek: Πλωτῖνος) (ca. AD 204–270) was a major philosopher of the ancient world who is widely considered the founder of Neoplatonism (along with his teacher Ammonius Saccas). Much of our biographical information about him comes from Porphyry's preface to his edition of Plotinus' Enneads.

Plotinus Theory

Plotinus taught that there is a supreme, totally transcendent "One", containing no division, multiplicity or distinction; likewise it is beyond all categories of being and non-being. The concept of "being" is derived by us from the objects of human experience called the dyad, and is an attribute of such objects, but the infinite, transcendent One is beyond all such objects, and therefore is beyond the concepts that we derive from them. The One "cannot be any existing thing", and cannot be merely the sum of all such things (compare the Stoic doctrine of disbelief in non-material existence), but "is prior to all existents". Thus, no attributes can be assigned to the One. We can only identify it with the Good and the principle of Beauty. [I.6.9]

For example, thought cannot be attributed to the One because thought implies distinction between a thinker and an object of thought (again dyad). Even the self-contemplating intelligence (the noesis of the nous) must contain duality. "Once you have uttered 'The Good,' add no further thought: by any addition, and in proportion to that addition, you introduce a deficiency." [III.8.10] Plotinus denies sentience, self-awareness or any other action (ergon) to the One [V.6.6]. Rather, if we insist on describing it further, we must call the One a sheer Dynamis or potentiality without which nothing could exist. [III.8.10] As Plotinus explains in both places and elsewhere [e.g. V.6.3], it is impossible for the One to be Being or a self-aware Creator God. At [V.6.4], Plotinus compared the One to "light", the Divine Nous (first will towards Good) to the "Sun", and lastly the Soul to the "Moon" whose light is merely a "derivative conglomeration of light from the 'Sun'". The first light could exist without any celestial body.


While the arche then becomes a understanding and significant addition to ever place that self evident becomes real for the individual then how is it that such an relation cannot be seen in the world as a foundation principle to guarantee that they are on the right track. To see that "correlation of cognition" places a role in the factual attainment of information. No matter how insignificant or trivial the relation, as common knowledge, it becomes a reinforcing measure of how one is adapting and applying this model, which allows confidence to be built in pursuance of knowledge and truth.

17 comments:

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Plato,

A very nice piece that touches upon many issues. As I said in my last comment, although I believe that there are many that can benefit in the reading and understanding of others, there are but a few who can take such understandings further as to have first themselves and then others still to understand more.

One who I feel as being such a person is Robert Pirsig , who some even himself would say has torn down as to criticize people such as you mention, yet I would say has found extension and further meaning in them. Like Aristotle understood that truth and beauty emanate (are emergent) from the “good”, Pirsig extends this to say that a more definitive understanding of what’s “good” is to further restrict it’s meaning to be “quality” . To expand this somewhat I would offer what’s defined such as "Quality" in Wikipedia;

"Quality," or "value," as described by Pirsig, cannot be defined because it empirically precedes any intellectual constructions. It is the "knife-edge" of experience, known to all. "What distinguishes good and bad writing? Do we need to ask this question of Lysias or anyone else who ever did write anything?" (Plato's Phaedrus, 258d). Likening it with the Tao, Pirsig believes that Quality is the fundamental force in the universe stimulating everything from atoms to animals to evolve and incorporate ever greater levels of Quality. According to the MOQ, everything (including the mind, ideas, and matter) is a product and a result of Quality.”

To be truthful on my initial reading of Pirsig's first initial thoughts on this, I was found myself lost for a bit in my foundations before I was able to realize his revelations not as a contradiction of earlier discovery yet as the self evident progression of understanding that his own contention holds.


I find it then interesting to wonder if our species will be in future not simply end as being a consequence of “quality” yet become truly its source. We have already demonstrated that we can recognize it and at times use its aspects to mimic other things it reflects, yet will we ever be capable to not only to act in it’s image, yet act as it’s source or better is this what is also required?

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Hi Phil,

I wanted to you to know this has occupied my mind immensely in a way that I seek to distill the essence of what you present. Allow perspective a greater berth of what brings us to this moment.

I would not denied that the metaphysics would be part of the greater complexity of the philosopher, to engage a more well rounded view of life. To include this as a "differing aspect of the individual" as to make them more whole and very fruitful while surrendering to life in the end, after all, that we had gathered and manifested.

Placing oneself in trust, knowing what you have done is in the hands of a force greater then yourself. We do have a choice to get to this point.

"Our Father who art in heaven Thy will be done"

The statement is to recognize that such a heaven can exist in any of us and how shall we allow this greater perspective while we are part and parcel of it. That such a identity(daemon) can be revealed in you, as in your very own person. The psychology of the nature of who you are, masks such experiences. How shall you get to know yourself so deeply?

One might even say that an "intelligent life form" may use this feature of our disposition to come into our awareness.

That such a higher wisdom could also reside in each of us that we had never to leave home to recognize that Einstein's Old One has become a messenger of sorts, and it is the culmination very well within each of our capabilities. It is our assessment in an overself. A master philosopher most certainly shall we also progress.

Some key things jumped out at me and I will list these first.

Phil:"Quality," or "value," as described by Pirsig, cannot be defined because it empirically precedes any intellectual constructions. It is the "knife-edge" of experience, known to all.

This is an important distinction after having learnt to deal with the world in which such a relation is established. You have assigned it a quality as if in Pirsigs context. I would like to to acknowledge that when such a distinction is moved to the "self evident stage" it must seem smooth indeed without having to give life such attention as a second thought, that we could say that quality of life then becomes "not a fixation as well" as if, in relation to the subject/duality but moves on to the greater complexity of life in the picture of things. Fructified image-ing.

In reference to above quote:Pirsig argues that the MOQ is a better lens through which to view reality than the traditional dualistic subjective/objective mindset.

Now of course to see such a double edge sword is then see in context of the phrase used, to show how fine indeed perspective can be honed to allow a finer example for a most complex relation.

You go on.

To be truthful on my initial reading of Pirsig's first initial thoughts on this, I was found myself lost for a bit in my foundations before I was able to realize his revelations not as a contradiction of earlier discovery yet as the self evident progression of understanding that his own contention holds.

I am trying to be very careful here in this part. This will ultimately lead to the culmination of your last paragraph. I will write more as time permits to finish my response to your statement.

Best,

Plato said...

You referenced so I thought to call it up for further inspection.

The conclusion of the whole matter is just this,—that until a man knows the truth, and
the manner of adapting the truth to the natures of other men, he cannot be a good
orator; also, that the living is better than the written word, and that the principles of
justice and truth when delivered by word of mouth are the legitimate offspring of a
man’s own bosom, and their lawful descendants take up their abode in others. Such an
orator as he is who is possessed of them, you and I would fain become. And to all
composers in the world, poets, orators, legislators, we hereby announce that if their
compositions are based upon these principles, then they are not only poets, orators,
legislators, but philosophers. All others are mere flatterers and putters together of
words. This is the message which Phaedrus undertakes to carry to Lysias from the
local deities, and Socrates himself will carry a similar message to his favourite
Isocrates, whose future distinction as a great rhetorician he prophesies. The heat of the
day has passed, and after offering up a prayer to Pan and the nymphs, Socrates and
Phaedrus depart.
There are two principal controversies
Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, vol. 1 [387 AD]

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Plato,

I thought you might appreciate what I had to present in referencing Pirsig. I recommend that your read his first book (Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance) whenever you can. You will discover that Pirsig’s inner voice Phædrus actually for a time manifested himself externally so strongly that it was Pirsig who appeared as the shadow for a period.

This is a book that has revealed much to me and remains both as a sign post and an enigma of shorts. As you have much understanding of the Greek beginnings, which he both topples and expands I believe you will find it of great interest and yet I would caution that you will experience a journey through the eyes of someone whose depth is not only great yet at times you might find as somewhat disturbing.

Not that you should consider him anything but just a man, yet you may find him one that for a time was so pained by his closeness to the light that it has one understand why most prisoners would care not to begin such a journey.

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Hi Phil,

I will speak with such surrender that I will not be able to tell if you understand what I am saying without having to read Pirsig, yet, have distilled his plight in regards to his "madness" and what loves means in this case.

You must know then that love of Chis his son can manifest the "troubling attachment of travel" yet reveal how the Daughter Nell can exemplify a new road for Pirsig to celebrate, in the pattern of what was once the son Chris.

In reading the Afterword of Pirsig something jumped out at me that I thought should be spoken. Of course it was important to reference the talk between Phaedrus and Socrates, and in context of this madness what is revealed in the story about a motorcycle with it's rider "classically speaking" while one could throw caution to the wind and rely on the expertise of the companion riders to let the mechanic do the work.

Afterword

What had to be seen was that the Chris I missed so badly was not an object but a pattern, and that although the pattern included the flesh and blood of Chris, that was not all there was to it. The pattern was larger than Chris and myself, and related us in ways that neither of us understood completely and neither of us was in complete control of.

Now Chris's body, which was a part of that larger pattern, was gone. But the larger pattern remained. A huge hole had been torn out of the center of it, and that was what caused all the heartache. The pattern was looking for something to attach to and couldn't find anything. That's probably why grieving people feel such attachment to cemetery headstones and any material property or representation of the deceased. The pattern is trying to hang on to its own existence by finding some new material thing to center itself upon.

Some time later it became clearer that these thoughts were something very close to statements found in many "primitive" cultures. If you take that part of the pattern that is not the flesh and bones of Chris and call it the "spirit" of Chris or the "ghost" of Chris, then you can say without further translation that the spirit or ghost of Chris is looking for a new body to enter. When we hear accounts of "primitives" talking this way, we dismiss them as superstition because we interpret ghost or spirit as some sort of material ectoplasm, when in fact they may not mean any such thing at all.


You might not want to know what my thoughts are in this vain to know that I can supply biographies as well that would speak to the "state of the man" and to know that a fundamental change can exist for that pattern to depart and find, a new and rejuvenated spirit that assumes the role in the body now.

Even in this very day and age there are slight messages being laid before the public without "this understanding" that could exist, does exist and has manifested in those who sought to come back and to do their good works. Accepting the burden and suffering in the realms of the material, that one can assume by mutual agreement.

Assuming such a cloak brings the dismay of forgetfulness and a trial by such assumption, that to begin the work they choose to come to back to administer, means wading through the complexity of the previous as if held to a cell memory.

Such plights are recognized in men who have been jailed and through such deprivations have surrendered in a most acceptance of such a relinquished way that such a space exists for the pattern to emerge. Shall I mention briefly Anwar el Sadat?

Shall I expectantly see in the currents events of the day that such leaders are there now and have been positioned to bring society to that ever better ideal state? Plotinus was mentioned in this regard although he was unsuccessful.

A poem was written about Anwar in such a manner I thought to the reveal the jail cell number, and what was to unfold in the current events of his time. until his assassination and leading to his current successor.

So if Socrates was listening, what was he actually listen for? You had to know that such truths are embedded in the Good.

Again I may have spoken to soon without a thorough examination with which as you can see I am currently acknowledging.

There is one statement specific for you that has yet to emerge that I am trying to locate. If given in "this context of this whole comment" you will understand.

Best,

Plato said...

Hi Phil,

For what ever reason, it is this statement below that I felt compelled from a most deep and introspective state to mention.

"The builder gets his plans from the architect but the architect gets his ideas spontaneously from his own imagination."

I thought to add more, but no, it is suppose to appear this way. It was supposed to appear before Pirsig's mention of Nell after revealing the pattern of Chris. This is very telling of Pirsig's acknowledgement to a healing psychologically, and moving forward to a new life. Nell, his daughter is then encapsulated in this way.

I thought also, as I was preparing here such trans formative change in the idea of, the "Dark Night of the Soul," as well.

In context of "the journey" the method of dealing with in regard to Pirsig was appearing to be prepared for what is to come, while, "what comes out on the other side." I don't know if that makes sense?

Best,

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Plato,

I’m sure you understand that the afterword to the book was added many years after it was written. The connection that relates to it most strongly rests on it was Chris who was the one that took this journey along with his father. His understanding of his philosophy had been extended since to be more of a dynamic nature from which is what inspired much of what you quote. This extension is entitled “Lila” which I’ve never read although am aware. This is mostly due to the fact that ZAMM itself caught me so unaware that I’m still somewhat hesitant to extend the journey any further until I can either completely accept or reject what is there.

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Hi Phil,

I wouldn't be surprised that you might like to discontinue based on what I have just told in the above comments.:)

Anyway this episode is an important one to me in that there is some difficulties with which you feel threatened( is this a good word?) "on the basis of Reason may mean to you" and the way it is accomplished in Persig's views? Has he evolved the idea then that Phaedrus's contribution see in the emotive states would have further devalued and become an offence to that reason?


A new paradigm of rationality

Pirsig's response to his crisis is to assume that his personal fragmentation and our public, technological fragmentation are two aspects of a general crisis of Reason; that he went mad because he rejected that Reason which shapes our culture and its technologies. His concern is not solely with the public dimension of the crisis, the "relationship between people and technology," as Richard Schuldenfrei argues (Schuldenfrei 100). Nor yet is it only with the achievement of the whole or sane person, as Crusius maintains. Both the public and personal aspects of the crisis are inseparable manifestations of a deeper crisis of Reason.

Using the fragments left from Phaedrus' search, Pirsig attempts to integrate his present and past selves into a unified whole, to find a new way of being sane or whole in a technological world. And, as Chautauqua orator, he communicates his disclosures, showing how we, like Phaedrus, are also controlled by that same ghost of Reason. To this end, he must reveal the assumptions which we share, preconceptions grounded in our conception of Reason which have led us into our public crisis, and which now prevent us from finding our way out. In so doing, he presents an alternative way of perceiving and functioning in the crisis, one which affords a better mode of behaving.
Rhetoric and Madness: Robert Pirsig's Inquiry into Values

I am trying hard to see past what is being presented here.

Best,

Phil Warnell said...

Hi Plato,

“Anyway this episode is an important one to me in that there is some difficulties with which you feel threatened( is this a good word?”)

The threat is not with me personally, yet rather with truth. I’m gladdened that you have found such an interest in Pirsig and perhaps with it some further identity, yet before reading much more of what others have said I would suggest that you read what is being assessed for yourself. There is more to writing then words, as can be said there is more to music then notes. Although other’s examinations are important you first must be as with music touched by it for yourself.

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Phil:There is more to writing then words, as can be said there is more to music then notes.

Yes I understand. So then Until I read the book I will not comment further and close with the following.

The conclusion of the whole matter is just this,—that until a man knows the truth, and
the manner of adapting the truth to the natures of other men, he cannot be a good orator; Plato, The Dialogues of Plato, vol. 1 [387 AD]


It also explains that the Dynamic beauty of a piece of music can be recognized before reading any static analysis explaining why the music is beautiful.

Best,

Ps. does not mean that while I am doing this we might not extend this conversation to Lawrence Krauss's book on dimensions?

Phil Warnell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Phil Warnell said...

Hi Plato,

It’s not so much that I wanted to end the dialogue, more so that you have an opportunity to experience it yourself before too many experiences of others can obscure Pirsig’s. Like I admitted , that still years later I have this all not settled within myself, which I guess is the problem when the heart of a philosopher couples with the mind of a scientist, for doubt then must always be present.

As for Krauss I wish I could tell you I had something to bring, yet in truth I have only read his first book “The fifth Essence” which is perhaps one of the initial discussions about dark matter. To be honest in as it’s been almost 20 years since Krauss first raised the issue with nothing found that this represents to be I’m left somewhat skeptical it exists at all.

That is why I read Moffat’s book recently, to see if this has clearer explanation; yet have to report that although his modified gravity (MOG) dispenses with the need for dark matter, it does so at the price to even further restrict the parameters of the laws. If this then becomes true then one must further ask if the parameters need to be set or is there still some ultimate truth that forces them to be so. This is one reason perhaps to explain why Pirsig abandoned science in favour of philosophy as the only means by which it might be discovered.

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Phil:It’s not so much that I wanted to end the dialogue, more so that you have an opportunity to experience it yourself before too many experiences of others can obscure Pirsig’s. Like I admitted , that still years later I have this all not settled within myself, which I guess is the problem when the heart of a philosopher couples with the mind of a scientist, for doubt then must always be present.

I think you were right to ask me to read this without being tainted by others views so that I could offer perspective as I was reading.:)

I accepted your challenge to read it and can say I am up to Chapter 9 at this point.

I have a few things I wanted to say first off. His IQ of 170 was his message toward identifying him as the character of the "lone wolf."

IT is beyond me from what I have gathered how a mind that has been scrambled electrically can come back to be so articulate in the method of approach, as has been revealed in this written work of Pirsig. A lot of follow up counselling perhaps. This reminded me of John Nash's struggle with his disease.

Secondly, to go from a night of drinking to the psyche ward, and picture "all as a dream" is quite a frightening scenario for anybody who may have lost touch with reality only to find, somehow, they had come back to their senses in a environment that had slipped past awareness. That indeed would be frightening to me.

I will present a new post and am currently looking for a picture of a Old tent used in those revival meetings of the thirties. Before our current technology has allowed for any message to be spread. Do you understand what this image means in relation to Pirsg? This book then, was his one chance to set it right. He seen the symptoms in his son.

Best,

Ps. While I was busy, I wanted to offer up the concept of dimensions to you in the spirit of philosophy so that I can work toward distilling it to its essence in a distinctive and responsible way.

I thought you might have read Krauss in this context. I reveal as much in the way I open that post toward distilling the essence with regard to modern day science. Any comments there are appreciated. My comment to Tim May is such an example of what he does not see. I can counter this with this comment here.

Phil Warnell said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Phil Warnell said...

Hi Plato,

I’m gladdened that you are reading Pirsig’s book, for I’m sure that in the end, no matter what your own assessment, that you might agree he certainly is one philosopher (who is still among us) that has pushed the meaning and question of human understanding. For me he also reinforces my deepest feelings that while some may rightfully contend that there may be no entity responsible for reality; this is not quite the same to insist that there can’t be a reason.

“I have a few things I wanted to say first off. His IQ of 170 was his message toward identifying him as the character of the "lone wolf."”
“IT is beyond me from what I have gathered how a mind that has been scrambled electrically can come back to be so articulate in the method of approach, as has been revealed in this written work of Pirsig. A lot of follow up counselling perhaps. This reminded me of John Nash's struggle with his disease”

Yes, this also stood out for me as to wonder if that mind was still as potent after as before. The book would lead you to believe that it was, yet I still wonder. Perhaps it took it back a step or two, so as what was revealed is from someone closer to the normal plane who is explaining what was realized in the plane that was there before.. If one looks at a bell curve for IQ and consider what level of understanding such a plot describes you might gather my meaning.

That is to say if you look at the norm which is 100 and how those at just 30 points less seem so dull and challenged they cannot be comprehended. Then you relate this to those of 130 to those at the mean and wonder if the comparison is not much the same. Now consider the world through the eyes of those at 170 (reportedly 1 in 100,000). Imagine how alone in the world they must feel, living among a world where most persons are 70 points back from these few unfortunate souls.

Now I know that IQ is but only one way to gauge a persons depth of ability to understand with the use of reason, yet it does have one pause to consider when we look of those few that exist which score as high as Pirsig. So while it’s one thing to read as to understand what such have come to realize, it’s yet another to feel confident to say we understand the thoughts that are present of those who do.

Best,

Phil

Plato said...

Phil:Yes, this also stood out for me as to wonder if that mind was still as potent after as before. The book would lead you to believe that it was, yet I still wonder. Perhaps it took it back a step or two, so as what was revealed is from someone closer to the normal plane who is explaining what was realized in the plane that was there before..

I'm up to Chapter 14.

He exemplifies his ideal when he refers himself as the orator. Perfecting his speech in the realm of the abandonment of the technologies, before, the medium of the written word existed. IT was a exploration then of this change that took place in him and advanced forward in time. He believed there was a truth and essence in these perceptions of his. That the written word defiled that in a way. Yet, in the afterword, it gives clarity.

Hindsight in this case, as in the note taking of his, at a time when it was very real for the Pirsig, who at that time incorporated a "figure speaking." An "afterword" can become an after thought just as the story was. While I projected my point of view earlier without reading, this book, was how Pirsig was able to come to terms with the tragedy of his son Chris. IN the new life. You see, what has died and is reborn?

What he recognized in the son Chris was something that Pirsig himself realized in his own makeup, and in this, as an after thought, he could now see with a better clarity what was building in his own nature that he might "back then" have built his escape from dealing with it.

He was not happy to be a teacher in front of his students and felt that a failing student could somehow exemplify his own idealizations as to his state of mind, that such a rejection of the system was to rebel, and somehow seem smarter then the rest of the world. After all, he had a IQ number and a reason with which to abandon the world and to go on his own way? Yes, if he is alive he knows very well what I am saying.

The articulation is still a credential method of approach that is quite substantial and exists as well in the note taking.

In the synopsizes of his history into a culpable vision of his past, using fragmentary notes and getting this sense of another person in another time( is it so different then the person of Phaedrus) that his moment of clarity is now Pirsig himself at this time writing this book?

IN having to write the journey as if through a terrain of that past, it is always at a periphery of his awareness that it haunts him and he calls these ghosts.

One does not discount the value of that note taking and what exists now in the distillation of the factual, can occur in his philosophizing.

You must know that I do not hold to value this number IQ as significant to my dealings with the world, but more the EQ as it can contain to me all our own embedded history as we move forward in time. To know, what is encapsulated in you. How experience can manifest and provide for the greater understanding of how we got to where we did.

This is not to "degrade the intellect" but to put it into perspective. It is part and parcel of the greater individual that one could ascend you might say to the conceptualization of all that we are and have accumulated.

When you look inside and begin to "Know Thyself" you realize that the journey inward is also extended outward in succession of borders of thinking. These are emotively intellectually and spiritually expressed. These borders are never really distinctive yet intermingle with our extensions inward, resulting in the configurations outwardly. In the finer makeup, is to move the mind further way from the body home, while still recognizing that it is a temple of sorts.

Some might like to exceed themself in religious context by building this temple in a diagram of such a nature, that is architecturally around a centre. Their place of worship and communion with God.

That I could recognize such a a state of mind of Pirsig along the road of his working to bring together his fragmentary past, resulting of course and relating to the manipulation of those electrical currents, is to see oneself apart from, yet part of a much larger perspective contain in the life of one who writes from this heighten perspective.

I may use a a historical name as well but I am very well aware of who is speaking.:)

Best,

Plato said...

For further examination of EQ

In case link above didn't work type in EQ into the search function at the very top of page.

Best,